Mike Mussina Had a Better Career Than Tom Glavine
Mike Mussina was a better pitcher than Tom Glavine. Mike Mussina announced that he has made his last major league pitch, while Tom Glavine filed for free agency on November 5 and is not sure whether he will be able to return from elbow surgery. Statistically, Mike Mussina tops Tom Glavine in EVERY major category, except career wins. Glavine has won 305 games while Mussina has won 270, but during his eighteen year career, Mussina averaged 17 wins a season. In his twenty two year career, Glavine averaged 15 wins a season. While Mussina won as many as 20 games only once, he never won fewer than 11 games in a season. Glavine won at least 20 games in five different seasons, but he won only 7 games while losing 17 his second season, and Tom won only 9 games his first year with the Mets. Mike Mussina has a winning percentage of .638 compared to Tom Glavine's .600.
Mike Mussina Tops Tom Glavine
Mike Mussina compiled a 3.68 ERA during his career, compared to the American League's 4.51. Tom Glavine's lifetime ERA is 3.54 compared to the National League's 4.16, but those numbers do not account for the fact that Mussina faced designated hitters while Glavine faced pitchers or a pinch hitter. Mussina's ERA+ is 123, compared to Glavine's 118. With respect to WHIP (walks + hits divided by innings pitched), Mussina's 1.192 tops Glavine's 1.314. Finally, Mussina averaged 178 strikeouts and 49 walks a season compared to Glavine's 129 strikeouts and 74 walks.
Mike Mussina's Greatest Pitching Moment
Tom Glavine has been in five World Series. While the Braves won only in 1995, Glavine contributed tremendously to that championship, winning Game 2 against the Indians and then winning a 1-0 shut out in Game 6 to end the Series. Mussina has NEVER won a World Series game. The two years he helped the Yankees get to the World Series -- 2001 and 2003 -- they lost each time. Mussina recently said that his greatest moment occurred in the second round of the 2003 playoffs against the Red Sox in Game 7. With the Yankees trailing, 4-0. Mussina came in with runners on first and third and no outs. He struck out Jason Varitek and got Johnny Damon on a double play grounder to keep the deficit at four runs. The Yankees came back to win the game and the pennant.
Tom Glavine's Losing Seasons
Mike Mussina lost more games than he won only in his first season. He joined the Orioles in August, 1991, started 12 games, and went 4-5. Tom Glavine has lost more games than he won in SIX different seasons, including 7-17 in 1988, 9-14 in 2003, and 11-14 in 2004. While it is generally agreed that a pitcher's won-lost record often is not an accurate measure of a pitcher's effectiveness, that fact is often ignored when 300 career wins are used as an automatic ticket into the Hall of Fame.
Tom Glavine Never Dominated
There are pitchers in the Hall of Fame who had short, dominant careers, such as Addie Joss, Dizzy Dean, and Sandy Koufax. Others, such as Don Sutton and Ferguson Jenkins, had long careers, were solid pitchers, but never dominated their leagues. Mike Mussina and Tom Glavine were similar to Sutton and Jenkins. They did not have the dominance of Sandy Koufax or Dizzy Dean, and most purists believe that neither Mike Mussina nor Tom Glavine was a Hall of Fame pitcher. Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Curt Schilling, John Smoltz, Johan Santana and Josh Beckett dominated. All were or are superior to Mussina and Glavine. In the Braves' "glory days," Glavine was no more than the THIRD best pitcher on the pitching staff
Harold Friend Associated Content 2008
Is Tom Glavine a Hall of Famer?
With news that Tom Glavine has a possible blood clot in his shoulder which could result in the end of his season and possibly his career, I thought it appropriate to ask whether he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Of course, that raises the general question “What makes a player worthy of enshrinement?,” the answer to which is too often a very good, but not great, career. In my book, to get a Hall pass, you must either be a 4th grader who has to take a leak or a professional athlete who is one of the best, not only of his generation, but ever, at his position. Since Glavnie has used up his eligibility as a 4th grader, let’s take a look at whether he qualifies for his pitching.
Overall, Glavine is a very good pitcher. He has won 287 games versus 190 defeats, for a very solid .602 winning percentage. He has a career ERA of 3.46, and a WHIP (walks + hits divided by innings pitched) of a solid 1.31. He has 2,453 strikeouts. All good numbers, but are they good enough for the Hall pass. Let’s compare him versus some of his contemporaries who are likely and/or possible candidates for the Hall….
W L PCT. ERA WHIP K
Glavine 287 190 .602 3.46 1.31 2,453
Maddux 329 200 .622 3.06 1.13 3,148
Clemens 346 176 .663 3.11 1.17 4,564
Johnson 277 145 .656 3.19 1.16 4,506
Schilling 206 136 .602 3.43 1.13 2,992
Pedro 206 89 .698 2.77 1.02 2,986
While Glavine’s numbers are very good, they do not compare with any of these other pitchers, with the exception of Schilling, who was a reliever for part of his career, iptched for some bad Phillies teams, did not blossom until later than the others, and is a marginal Hall of Famer at best. Even when compared to a steady but not spectacular pitcher like Mike Mussina, Glavine does not have as good a winning percentage (Mussina’s is .642) or WHIP (1.18). He does have a slightly better ERA (3.64), but I would attribute more than the difference to Mussina’s pitching his whole career in the AL while Glavine has thrown exclusively in the NL.
But let’s not stop there. Let’s compare Glavine to Bert Blyleven, one of the best pitchers of the 1970’s and 1980’s who has come up just short of Hall inclusion year after year. Ironically, Blylven and Glavine have won the same # of games (287), although I give Glavine the edge when handicapping who is more likely to break the tie. Blyleven lost significantly more games than Glavine (250 vs. 190), resulting in a relatively poor winning percentage of .534 for the Twins announcer. Surprisingly, Blyleven actually had a better career ERA of 3.31 vs. 3.46, although I will call that a draw based on higher run scoring in recent years. B-squared also had a significant better WHIP of 1.198, and a superior 3:1 stikeout to walk ration (versus less than 2:1 for Glavine). Overall, these guys are fairly similar, with a slight edge to Glavine for better winning percentage and pitching to similar numbers in a more difficult era for pitchers.
Another measure that is considered for Hall enshrinement (and rightfully so) is how did a player fare in important spots. Glavine has the reputation of stepping up in big spots because he came up huge in Game 6 versus the Indians when the Braves clinched with a 1-0 victory. However, Glavine actually has a below .500 record (12-15, .444) in 32 playoff starts, with a 3.58 ERA. These numbers were surprisingly poor to me, although he does get points for basically delivering the Braves one and only title in an underachieving decade long run.
When you look at the intangibles, I give Glavine kudos for two things. One, I give him some points for his excellent “Chicks Dig the Long Ball” Nike spot with Greg Maddux, which is even more amusing now that we know Mark McGwire was a wretched cheater (to watch the spot, click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRs60GZ1q1o). Also, I was watching a Phillies/Braves game back when Glavine had 191 wins (no idea why I remember that win total!), and dumb Skip Caray asked Glavine if he wanted to be in the Hall of Fame one day. Most athletes have been trained to answer that with a “take one day at a time” cliché, but Glavine looked right in the camera, and simply said “yes.” I though that candor from an athlete was refreshing. One more thing in Glavine’s favor: he was tough enough to be drafted in the 4th round of the NHL draft by the L.A. Kings.
Finally, one question I always ask before submitting my imaginary HOF ballot is “Did the player invoke fear in his opponents?” The answer to that question in Glavine’s case, in my opinion, is an unequivocal NO. His best pitch was always his change up (not like Cole Hamels, who has a great fastball and nasty curve to go along with his great change!), and he just seems to do it with great control, OK stuff, and always getting that call 6 inches off the plate.
In a nutshell, Tom Glavine was a very good pitcher who pitched on very good teams, and I wish the Phillies would have had him all these years instead of division foes. But he was not the best of the best, so if I had a vote to Cooperstown, I would not write his name on the ballot, even if he does limp to 300 wins. I just do not think he was quite good enough. That being said, I think he is likely in today with the real writers, and a lock if he gets 13 more wins. Which I guess goes to show you that they are giving too many passes, kind of like those 4th grade teachers…..
Brian Dilsheimer dilsmusings.blogspot.com 2006
Just in case you don't remember,
here is my original post on the subject. And just for funzies. Tom Glavine started Games
2 of the 95 and 96 World Series and Game
3 of the 99 edition of the fall classic.
